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Your tourism industry is *not* sustainable if no one can get to your country in a sustainable way

Looking at you Croatia, Norway, Portugal in particular

in reply to Jon Worth

KarlE
KarlE
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I think bus is not that unsustainable. Sure, by today's standards, diesel bus is not optimal (and I think electric travel busses aren't common yet), but still a factor better than individuals by fossil car, and more than a magnitude better than flying. Nevertheless, on-site standards like water and waste management, food waste and green energy are also quite relevant.
in reply to KarlE

Jon Worth
Jon Worth
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@KarlE Yes. But beyond 6 hours it’s generally not a pleasant way to travel.
@KarlE
in reply to Jon Worth

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Jon Worth re Portugal; we’re reliant on Spain for long distance trains and they cancelled them all in 2020, with no intention to restart. 😞
@Jon Worth
in reply to Sarah Brown

Marcus Jenkins
Marcus Jenkins
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@goatsarah I would absolutely *love* to be able to travel corner-to-corner, coast-to-coast on the Iberian peninsula by sleeper train. Perhaps this will come back, one day. For example, get on a train in Alicante or Murcia at 10pm after an early supper and wake up in Galicia or Lisbon 👌…

RENFE axed all the sleeper trains.

Public services should not be run according to how much shareholder value they can generate.

#sleepertrain #trenHotel #renfe #spain

#spain #renfe #sleepertrain #trenHotel @Sarah Brown
in reply to Marcus Jenkins

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Marcus Jenkins @Jon Worth The Portuguese government has asked the Spanish to reinstate the Sud Express on several occasions, and offered to put up money, and they keep saying no.

Apparently the Spanish are only interested in high speed rail. Of course, the Iberian peninsula having a different track gauge to the rest of the continent for its existing lines makes the development of long distance high speed rail … challenging.

@Jon Worth @Marcus Jenkins
in reply to Jon Worth

Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦
Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦
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Tell me about it. I live in Central Sweden, my Mum in the UK is scared of flying and I want to minimise my air travel but there are no ferries between Scandinavia and Britain.
in reply to Jon Worth

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Jon Worth @Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦 And even when ferries do exist, well, riddle me this.

The capital value of a RORO ferry and a Boeing 737-Max8200 can’t be that different.

The operating costs can’t be that different. Ferries are big and have big engines, but maintaining state of the art high bypass turbofans is not cheap.

So why does it cost 20 quid off peak to fly FAO-STN and a THOUSAND quid to travel by ferry from Santander to a Portsmouth?

Ok, there’s the cabin, but lots of places do overnight hotel rooms for a lot less than that.

I can only think that this is economy of scale.

@Jon Worth @Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦
in reply to Sarah Brown

Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦
Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦
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@goatsarah It baffles me but I am not that up on travel economics.
Maybe the airlines are better at lobbying?But “flight shame” is a real thing in Sweden. I would think ferries to the UK would be really popular. Sweden is a long country so only the South half of the country has any real access to decent transport that isn’t the car or plane.
@Sarah Brown
in reply to Sarah Brown

Colm Donoghue
Colm Donoghue
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@goatsarah @toxy

It's £161 to travel next Tuesday from Portsmouth to Santander. Where are you getting the grand price?

Planes can take more trips in the time the ferry travels, so the 20 quids get multiplied.
You can also bring substantially more than 10kg luggage by ship

@Sarah Brown @Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦
in reply to Colm Donoghue

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Colm Donoghue @Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Jon Worth No, with the car, on account of needing to get to Santander and living in Portugal and international rail literally not existing here.
@Jon Worth @Toxy 🔬🇪🇺🇸🇪🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Colm Donoghue
in reply to Jon Worth

Martin Seeger
Martin Seeger
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Split railway station looks a bit shoddy 😁. Looked on the wrong side for the armored train 😢.
in reply to Jon Worth

Cecilia | MeraOrd 🏕
Cecilia | MeraOrd 🏕
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...well, us Swedes could always walk to Norway. But perhaps we would be a minority, and the amount of people *wanting* to walk/hike to Norway would be even fewer.
in reply to Jon Worth

Martha
Martha
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But.but, but... is that dereliction Portugal's fault or Spain's
in reply to Jon Worth

prosiac
prosiac
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Why you didn’t mention Spain ? But yes, i know a important part of their problem is France and its stupid track access charges that makes an viable operation impossible between FR-ES.

But i think Renfe can do much better it they try hard enough…

in reply to Jon Worth

Kjetil Rydland
Kjetil Rydland
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Pretty much nothing about our tourism is sustainable.
in reply to Jon Worth

Marcus Jenkins
Marcus Jenkins
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I hate to bring my home country into this, but Spain isn't too cool in this respect, either. Mainland Spain *can* be reached by train from the rest of Europe, but let's face reality - the bulk are tourists from the UK coming in on (unsustainably) cheap flights for a week's roasting on the beach.

And then there's the Baleraric & Canary islands. Southern Tenerife is almost more British than Spanish, I'm afraid to say.

#sustainability #tourism #spain

#sustainability #spain #tourism
in reply to Marcus Jenkins

olena
olena
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@marcusjenkins that ‘can be reached’ also doesn’t count the number of times you’ll need to change a train. Like, it’s tolerable from France, but even from Germany is already not quite nice, and if you need to get here somewhere from Baltics or Netherland - well, good luck and better book a few hotels on the way
@Marcus Jenkins
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