@mansr @verymetalsite I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how I manage to survive without a TikTok account. No, really. Life is so drab and miserable without having to worry about the slavvering hordes of springfluencers stalking my follower count …
You can't even write a brief note to yourself these days without being nudged to read the latest stock market movements, update Powerpoint (which you do not ever use), watch a video of a sportsball game you aren't interested in, or sign in with your google account for entry in a free lottery.
It's exhausting, and it's not our fault: the people who design our tech don't want us to be able to make it do what we want.
@abstractcode Not to threadjack, but just a note to myself and anyone interested:
I was delighted to find you can block a lot of those "Sign in with Google" popups by filtering out "accounts.google.com/gsi/*", e.g., in the "My Filters" entry in Ublock Origin.
Slack has been doing this with their push of AI on users, but the really insidious thing is that they don't do it to the workspace owners.
Every area of the app has gotten a "Request AI access? [Yes / Not Now]": The unread messages, the search bar, the search results, the user list, the workspace menu, the ..., and everywhere has to be dismissed individually. But the owner? One dismiss and they never see it anywhere again.
I think the point is that if you ask "Do you want an upsell/AI/unnecessary feature?" enough times, the user will eventually accidentally press the wrong button and "consent" to whatever it is.
Happened to me last week. Opened the photos app on my phone because I needed to find a pic I took of a sign I urgently needed to ask an airport staffer about, and accidentally clicked the "Yes, store all my photos on your cloud" dialog I'd declined 5,000 times before.
@pluralistic I fucking hate that I have done this a few times. They ask every time when you say no, but only once if you say yes, and clawing any of it back is at best difficult, arguably impossible.
@Oggie @pluralistic Yeah, but you can at least see the business model at work there ("store photos in the cloud" = "pay us rent for cloud storage") and there *is* a tenuous value proposition ("make it easy to share photos with other cloud-connected devices"). Whereas the AI-with-everything is transparently a grift. And most of the sealioning devices are pitching for permission to do something you didn't buy them for (your smart fridge wants to subscribe to the weather channel).
Honestly, I can't understand "smart appliances". Other than the home thermostat, I just don't get the appeal. I want to run a load of dishes, why do I need to do some status upgrade? I just wanna put the veggies away, or get some out to cut up... the doors open and close and it keeps the food cold. It's smart enough, honestly. A post-it note and paper work fine if I need a shopping list to work from. And i have stainless steel doors on my fridge, dry-erase markers work fine on the surface for reminder notes or the menu for the week (except for green, it doesn't show up well enough).
That's "smart" enough for me. Just another costly thing to break down and replace, having all that extra crap in there.
Google keeps harassing me to allow it access to my SMS messages so I can have them AI summarised!? It's under 255 characters! What sort of lack of attention would require that? And we all know it's really for data to harvest.
Well I don't have slack on my mobile (it seems to be a bit resistant to installing in to my work shelter), and my desktop app does not nag, but it would be pointless, I am authorized to do buying decisions for the company, and we literally have an explicit default no using of AI based products without explicit management permission policy.
And I would assume that this aspect (not having buying power) is common for most slack users. So why nag them? @Oggie @pluralistic
@Oggie @pluralistic what's the point of a fridge subscribed to the weather channel? So that it knows when it's cold enough and it can tell us to store the food outside?
@sabrinaweb71 @Oggie @pluralistic Obviously an IoT fridge can bulk-order ice cream when the outdoor temperatures goes over 5℃. (Or not, if you pay your monthly subscription the fridge manufacturer to *not* be spammed with unwanted frozen goods.)
@pluralistic Hi, this is Con-rad, your virtual personal assistant! I see you have searched “How to disable AI”. Thank you for your interest, I know you’re going to love the new features. I have now enabled AI for all products. You will be charged an additional $50/month going forward. Please note that this change is permanent. Thanks for being an awesome customer! Made with ❤️ in SF.
@pluralistic @fish OHHHH this is my surprised face at Google enshittifying their app ecosystem by pushing for maximum access to personal data for training their LLMs 🤷♂️
An OS like all great technology should kind of disappear. Be so good you don't think of it being there. Not great if you depend on marketing hype to push your version 11. Linux does this on PC for me.
@CoolBlenderKitten @CaffeinatedBookDragon @Oggie @pluralistic There is plausible scope for emergent anti-brands. Consider Muji, whose entire shtick is stores selling good quality basic stuff with *no* branding. There's scope for that in tech, too. (I ❤️ my Pomera DM250. It's just a boring grey pocket word processor which processes words. Looks like USB mass storage to a PC when you plug it in, doesn't require software updates, doesn't expect or ask for internet connectivity ...)
@TimWardCam @gavin57 @CaffeinatedBookDragon @Oggie @pluralistic The other thing about dumb thermostats is that they have hysteresis and no prediction. Say you set it at 20 degrees C. It waits until the temp is 19 before turning on. Then it stays on until the temp is 21. But the radiators are still hot so your house heats up to around 22. A 3 degree temperature swing is pretty uncomfortable.
Our smart thermostat now keeps the temp within 1/2 a degree C of what we set.
It explains why I'm hanging onto my current car with my fingernails. I hope it goes at least another 200K miles for me. I'll have it til it becomes nothing but spare parts, as far as I'm concerned.
I got probably one of the last cars that Nissan made that didn't have power windows or door locks (even the guy who sold it to me didn't realize that at first, which is why the price was so low compared to the other powered models on the lot), no touch screens, heated seats, backup cameras, "keyless entry", video setup for backseat passengers, etc. I crank down the window and hit the switch on the door to lock up. That's it.
Should my blue-green baby go to the scrapyard in the sky, I'd be lucky to find a decent used car at the same price THIS one cost me outright when it was new. Unless car manufacturers strip it down a bit and go back to basics with car safety and what's necessary, they won't be affordable for some time.
Yes, but different vehicles are viable in different places: not only do I not own a car, but if I wanted one, that tank of yours would be illegal here (and impossible to find a parking space for, or even drive on some roads, if it wasn't). Hint: it's far too big and dirty for a pre-steam locomotive city with twisty streets and an ultra-low emission zone and parking spaces sized for the Mini (pre-2000). Never mind the illegla bull bars!
Considering how bare-bones it is, I doubt they'd want it.
That's the funny thing about car buying. I was close to getting an EV that (before my baby got flooded out and I had to do all I could to save her) folks online called an outdated look and not sexy.
GOOD! Get something that looks sleek and sexy and desirable and you're practically asking someone to steal it. Something that looks pretty basic and not impressive? Not worth stealing. I just want reliable and easier to fix, not a fashion statement.
Proud owner of a toyota '91 diesel. Actually down here a tank like this doesn't even loose value anymore. Costs half of of it's 0km value, like 12 to 14k USD.
@utopiarte @pluralistic @Oggie @CaffeinatedBookDragon @tierranietos VW Beetles? The original kind are illegal here. As for the new model, I live a 500 metre walk from the milestone at the centre of a capital city. Everything I need is within a 15 minute walk—main line railway station, specilist delis, a couple of shopping malls and department stores, multiple supermarkets, gyms, doctor's surgery, libraries, buses and trams to the airport and regional teaching hospital …
Well, out here at @la tierra de nuestros nietos, 7km to the road and another 8 to the next village it's nearly basics for survival. I even managed to life with a mountain bike here, but being able to catch food once a month crossing eben a small river it's nearly basics.
@CoolBlenderKitten In truth (I think), Edinburgh is hostile by virtue of it being solid granite, as much as anything. So it makes sense to not have big, expensive cars, because there will be big expensive scratches.
I think the UK does encourage smaller cars. Although I have seen a rolls drive down a very narrow lane.
@SteveClough @CoolBlenderKitten I'm not sure how you think granite discourages cars? (It makes it more expensive to build level roads, true, but that's insignificant compared to Edinburgh being a UNESCO world heritage site with an old town that's 600-800 years old and a new town that was laid out in the 1750s! The former designed for pedestrians and ox-carts within medieval walls, the latter for horse-drawn carriages. Cars are not a good retrofit …!
@SteveClough @CoolBlenderKitten You don't hit it. You hit the buildings instead. (Which are mostly made of sandstone, so not much better if you hit them at speed.)
@SteveClough @CoolBlenderKitten There is zero practical difference between ramming a block of sandstone 50cm thick and ramming a similar block of granite: neither of them comes with a crumple zone.
@SteveClough @CoolBlenderKitten You don't get close enough to the buildings to scrape your paint without driving up on the pavement, which is generally swarming with pedestrians. A big no-no!
Lucky. I live out-county, outside Houston. A 15 minute walk would get me to a dollar store &a few gas stations either direction. Hell, I'd have to DRIVE about 15 minutes to even get basic groceries either direction, too. I'm so far out in the sticks I can't get pizza or grocery delivery, and Uber would be crazy costly (if any wanted to even come out this far).
I swear my small town basically grew up around some churches and gas stations, just a pass-through place where some folks decided to live instead of move on. And taxes go up because they're trying to "keep it small", and we don't even have an urgent care clinic or ER while other towns around us have 2 or 3 each. I like living out county because I can plant what I want in my yard & no HOA to breathe down my neck, & town is boring as hell without much opportunity. The worst trade-off, though, is if I don't have a working car, I'm stranded.
@tierranietos One of the most epic bits of gaslighting in recent years is the far-right attempt to portray "fifteen minute cities" as some kind of ghastly dystopia. They're the exact opposite—and it's just bullshit being pushed by fossil-fuels lobbyists.
the Not Just Bikes guy is one of my fave people on YouTube, and as a native Houstonian.... let's just say I agree 100% on the reasons he stated why he hates Houston. I'd LOVE to be able to just walk everywhere, and the wear and tear on my blue-green baby are why I want to find a work from home job so badly, because then I could save up to keep him around longer and maintain him right... AND pay my bills better. They make us depend on cars around here, but make the cost of keeping one go up every year.
I've got my fingers crossed that I get that grocery store job... the one 15 minutes away, funny enough, because otherwise I'm gonna have to find a way to sell one of my guitars for the vehicle registration by the end of the month (ugh, being broke sucks).
One of the more baffling events of the first quarter of 2023 was the mass protest in Oxford (England, not Mississippi) against the “15-minute city pledge,” a movement to get city councils to strive…
@pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos TLDR: just because Those Guys are Wrong it doesn't follow that their opponents are Right. (I still think the big mistake was allowing automobiles to operate on the public highway without requiring a man to walk 50 paces in front of each of them carrying a red flag at all times.)
@pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos this is why I’m in favour of bollards: they work 24/7 even when the network is down, don’t spy on anyone, 0 power requirements, and mete out instant justice to offenders.
was it in one of the New Management novels, that a time-critical dash thru London in a cab, wherein one of our protagonists complained about speed-limiting infrastructure was a bad thing?
or was it in Rule 34?
Honestly, I thought you were in the 'automobiles first! All else be damed' camp
@CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @pluralistic @Oggie @tierranietos My understanding is in a few areas there was misinformation spread suggesting people would be forbidden from travel or using businesses outside their neighborhood, which none of the proponents has ever said.
I think in a few areas it’s been rebranded and gained traction.
I’d love to have more valid walkable/bikeable options. I’m considering walking to a local store if I need a few things and the weather’s nice just to be contrary if nothing else. Plus I can use the exercise.
@cpm @pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos Neither of my SCOTTISH novels was set in London! (But there was a time-critical dash in "Rule 34" by a police car which gets to break the automatically imposed speed limit when it's got lights and sirens going for an emergency call.)
@cpm @pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos Not to worry, first attempt Ace made at a cover for "Halting State" (again, a SCOTTISH crime novel) they used London Metropolitan Police iconography and Big Ben! (I got slightly opinionated … like putting an LAPD patrol car in Time Square.)
@amro @Nicovel0 @pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos I got rid of my last car in 2022: a Volvo V70 from 2006, so about the last model year to come with a CD player but no AUX input, never mind USB/satnav/3G/telemetry snitchware bullshit. Didn't meet new emission standards and I'd stopped driving during COVID lockdown, so …
Can I just thank everyone in this thread for the most meandering interesting conversation I've read this year. I feel a strong obligation to tell that my car would do well on the mean streets of Manchester and is electronically stunted enough to be surveillance free. The Toyota Yaris Verso is a Japanese Tardis on wheels. Please keep this up ❤️
Henri Verymetaldev
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Charlie Stross reshared this.
Mans R
in reply to Henri Verymetaldev • • •@verymetalsite The sequel has the finest description of Tiktok I have ever seen.
wondermark.com/c/1551/
#1551; Spring Forth, My Creation (Part 3 of 3)
WondermarkCharlie Stross
in reply to Mans R • • •Henri Verymetaldev
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@mansr Really stopped worrying about when *exactly* mankind was supposed to turn into a mindless horde of mass media consumer zombies.
The springlantern *is* 42, marketed or not.
Colin
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Would you like more sealioning?
Yes/Maybe Later
Charlie Stross
in reply to Colin • • •@abstractcode Exactly.
You can't even write a brief note to yourself these days without being nudged to read the latest stock market movements, update Powerpoint (which you do not ever use), watch a video of a sportsball game you aren't interested in, or sign in with your google account for entry in a free lottery.
It's exhausting, and it's not our fault: the people who design our tech don't want us to be able to make it do what we want.
Brendan Halpin
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@abstractcode
Not to threadjack, but just a note to myself and anyone interested:
I was delighted to find you can block a lot of those "Sign in with Google" popups by filtering out "accounts.google.com/gsi/*", e.g., in the "My Filters" entry in Ublock Origin.
Vincent De Baere
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Russell
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Slack has been doing this with their push of AI on users, but the really insidious thing is that they don't do it to the workspace owners.
Every area of the app has gotten a "Request AI access? [Yes / Not Now]": The unread messages, the search bar, the search results, the user list, the workspace menu, the ..., and everywhere has to be dismissed individually. But the owner? One dismiss and they never see it anywhere again.
Just Jim
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Cory Doctorow
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •I think the point is that if you ask "Do you want an upsell/AI/unnecessary feature?" enough times, the user will eventually accidentally press the wrong button and "consent" to whatever it is.
Happened to me last week. Opened the photos app on my phone because I needed to find a pic I took of a sign I urgently needed to ask an airport staffer about, and accidentally clicked the "Yes, store all my photos on your cloud" dialog I'd declined 5,000 times before.
Simon Waldman reshared this.
Oggie
in reply to Cory Doctorow • • •Charlie Stross
in reply to Oggie • • •Teedi P.
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Honestly, I can't understand "smart appliances". Other than the home thermostat, I just don't get the appeal. I want to run a load of dishes, why do I need to do some status upgrade? I just wanna put the veggies away, or get some out to cut up... the doors open and close and it keeps the food cold. It's smart enough, honestly. A post-it note and paper work fine if I need a shopping list to work from. And i have stainless steel doors on my fridge, dry-erase markers work fine on the surface for reminder notes or the menu for the week (except for green, it doesn't show up well enough).
That's "smart" enough for me. Just another costly thing to break down and replace, having all that extra crap in there.
NKTSecurity
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •And we all know it's really for data to harvest.
Andreas K
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Well I don't have slack on my mobile (it seems to be a bit resistant to installing in to my work shelter), and my desktop app does not nag, but it would be pointless, I am authorized to do buying decisions for the company, and we literally have an explicit default no using of AI based products without explicit management permission policy.
And I would assume that this aspect (not having buying power) is common for most slack users. So why nag them?
@Oggie @pluralistic
Sabrina Web
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Charlie Stross
in reply to Sabrina Web • • •Pier
in reply to Cory Doctorow • • •bomberfish 🔻
in reply to Cory Doctorow • • •Cory Doctorow
in reply to bomberfish 🔻 • • •Charlie Stross
in reply to Cory Doctorow • • •Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈 reshared this.
Willem Atsma
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •Dennis Faucher
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Charlie Stross
in reply to Dennis Faucher • • •Dennis Faucher
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Token Sane Person
Unknown parent • • •@TimWardCam @gavin57 @CaffeinatedBookDragon @Oggie @pluralistic The other thing about dumb thermostats is that they have hysteresis and no prediction. Say you set it at 20 degrees C. It waits until the temp is 19 before turning on. Then it stays on until the temp is 21. But the radiators are still hot so your house heats up to around 22. A 3 degree temperature swing is pretty uncomfortable.
Our smart thermostat now keeps the temp within 1/2 a degree C of what we set.
Teedi P.
Unknown parent • • •@CoolBlenderKitten @Oggie @pluralistic
It explains why I'm hanging onto my current car with my fingernails. I hope it goes at least another 200K miles for me. I'll have it til it becomes nothing but spare parts, as far as I'm concerned.
I got probably one of the last cars that Nissan made that didn't have power windows or door locks (even the guy who sold it to me didn't realize that at first, which is why the price was so low compared to the other powered models on the lot), no touch screens, heated seats, backup cameras, "keyless entry", video setup for backseat passengers, etc. I crank down the window and hit the switch on the door to lock up. That's it.
Should my blue-green baby go to the scrapyard in the sky, I'd be lucky to find a decent used car at the same price THIS one cost me outright when it was new. Unless car manufacturers strip it down a bit and go back to basics with car safety and what's necessary, they won't be affordable for some time.
Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •Teedi P.
Unknown parent • • •@utopiarte @pluralistic @Oggie
Considering how bare-bones it is, I doubt they'd want it.
That's the funny thing about car buying. I was close to getting an EV that (before my baby got flooded out and I had to do all I could to save her) folks online called an outdated look and not sexy.
GOOD! Get something that looks sleek and sexy and desirable and you're practically asking someone to steal it. Something that looks pretty basic and not impressive? Not worth stealing. I just want reliable and easier to fix, not a fashion statement.
utopiArte
in reply to Teedi P. • • •utopiArte
in reply to Teedi P. • • •Actually down here a tank like this doesn't even loose value anymore.
Costs half of of it's 0km value, like 12 to 14k USD.
gz
in reply to Dennis Faucher • • •The problem now is that the nails are AI-slopped and need a compatible hammer.
ROTOPE~1
Unknown parent • • •Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •utopiArte
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Well, out here at @la tierra de nuestros nietos, 7km to the road and another 8 to the next village it's nearly basics for survival. I even managed to life with a mountain bike here, but being able to catch food once a month crossing eben a small river it's nearly basics.
You could try a VW beetle.
🤔
Schroedinger
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@CoolBlenderKitten In truth (I think), Edinburgh is hostile by virtue of it being solid granite, as much as anything. So it makes sense to not have big, expensive cars, because there will be big expensive scratches.
I think the UK does encourage smaller cars. Although I have seen a rolls drive down a very narrow lane.
Charlie Stross
in reply to Schroedinger • • •Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •Schroedinger
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@CoolBlenderKitten Mainly because it is solid when you hit it.
It means if you hit it, the car will come off worse.
Charlie Stross
in reply to Schroedinger • • •Schroedinger
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@CoolBlenderKitten Ah OK. I stand corrected.
I have been, but only once. It always struck me as looking very solid.
Sandstone is much more forgiving.
Charlie Stross
in reply to Schroedinger • • •Schroedinger
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@CoolBlenderKitten Ramming - yes. I am also thinking of scrapes. I think a scrape along sandstone will be better?
What do I know? I will shut up.
Charlie Stross
in reply to Schroedinger • • •Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •utopiArte
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Since when are oldtimers illegal?
Sounds more like reminiscens of "we'll fight them on the beaches .."
Teedi P.
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@utopiarte @pluralistic @Oggie @tierranietos
Lucky. I live out-county, outside Houston. A 15 minute walk would get me to a dollar store &a few gas stations either direction. Hell, I'd have to DRIVE about 15 minutes to even get basic groceries either direction, too. I'm so far out in the sticks I can't get pizza or grocery delivery, and Uber would be crazy costly (if any wanted to even come out this far).
I swear my small town basically grew up around some churches and gas stations, just a pass-through place where some folks decided to live instead of move on. And taxes go up because they're trying to "keep it small", and we don't even have an urgent care clinic or ER while other towns around us have 2 or 3 each. I like living out county because I can plant what I want in my yard & no HOA to breathe down my neck, & town is boring as hell without much opportunity. The worst trade-off, though, is if I don't have a working car, I'm stranded.
Charlie Stross
in reply to Teedi P. • • •Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈 reshared this.
Teedi P.
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@utopiarte @pluralistic @Oggie @tierranietos
the Not Just Bikes guy is one of my fave people on YouTube, and as a native Houstonian.... let's just say I agree 100% on the reasons he stated why he hates Houston. I'd LOVE to be able to just walk everywhere, and the wear and tear on my blue-green baby are why I want to find a work from home job so badly, because then I could save up to keep him around longer and maintain him right... AND pay my bills better. They make us depend on cars around here, but make the cost of keeping one go up every year.
I've got my fingers crossed that I get that grocery store job... the one 15 minutes away, funny enough, because otherwise I'm gonna have to find a way to sell one of my guitars for the vehicle registration by the end of the month (ugh, being broke sucks).
Cory Doctorow
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos
Yes.
And...
locusmag.com/2023/05/commentar…
Commentary: Cory Doctorow: The Swivel-Eyed Loons Have a Point
Locus OnlineCharlie Stross
in reply to Cory Doctorow • • •Nicovel0 🍉
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •cpm
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •That's interesting
was it in one of the New Management novels, that a time-critical dash thru London in a cab, wherein one of our protagonists complained about speed-limiting infrastructure was a bad thing?
or was it in Rule 34?
Honestly, I thought you were in the 'automobiles first! All else be damed' camp
shame on me!
@pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos
MacBalance
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •@CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @pluralistic @Oggie @tierranietos My understanding is in a few areas there was misinformation spread suggesting people would be forbidden from travel or using businesses outside their neighborhood, which none of the proponents has ever said.
I think in a few areas it’s been rebranded and gained traction.
I’d love to have more valid walkable/bikeable options. I’m considering walking to a local store if I need a few things and the weather’s nice just to be contrary if nothing else. Plus I can use the exercise.
Charlie Stross
in reply to cpm • • •cpm
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Oh
man
I'm sorry!
Guess I should go back & re-read everything so far!
Lol!
OK
I accept!
looking forward to it!
great ride
&
thanks very much for your work
@pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos
Charlie Stross
in reply to cpm • • •Charlie Stross
Unknown parent • • •Amro has been
in reply to Nicovel0 🍉 • • •@Nicovel0 @pluralistic @CaffeinatedBookDragon @utopiarte @Oggie @tierranietos
Can I just thank everyone in this thread for the most meandering interesting conversation I've read this year.
I feel a strong obligation to tell that my car would do well on the mean streets of Manchester and is electronically stunted enough to be surveillance free. The Toyota Yaris Verso is a Japanese Tardis on wheels.
Please keep this up ❤️