Was assuming methylphenidate was “different” until I looked harder.
Oh
I see what you did there.
Just give me the red bit and we’re good.
⇧
Was assuming methylphenidate was “different” until I looked harder.
Oh
I see what you did there.
Just give me the red bit and we’re good.
Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Sarah Brown • • •Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • • •Sarah Brown
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • •@Riley S. Faelan "We have invented lisdexamphetamine! It is a novel second generation ADHD drug!"
"It's got amphetamine in the name ..."
"Right, but it's a pro drug! It means it will release slowly and last all day!"
"OK, how does it work?"
"It has l-lysine dimesylate as an N-methyl bond which is then split inside blood cells giving a smooth all day experience!"
"Is that bullshit-speak for 'we invented a speed molecule too big to go through the mucous membranes so you can't snort it?"
"Er ... it ... might be?"
"Right. Let's pretend you actually did this for the patients' benefits and that they won't get a lucky dip experience day to day based on how many of god knows which base nutrients they might have consumed or not. How long does it actually last?"
"TWELVE TO FOURTEEN HOURS!"
"in adults"
"Adults don't get ADHD!"
"Pubic hair does not alter the function of defective synapses. Cut the crap. How long does
... Show more...@Riley S. Faelan "We have invented lisdexamphetamine! It is a novel second generation ADHD drug!"
"It's got amphetamine in the name ..."
"Right, but it's a pro drug! It means it will release slowly and last all day!"
"OK, how does it work?"
"It has l-lysine dimesylate as an N-methyl bond which is then split inside blood cells giving a smooth all day experience!"
"Is that bullshit-speak for 'we invented a speed molecule too big to go through the mucous membranes so you can't snort it?"
"Er ... it ... might be?"
"Right. Let's pretend you actually did this for the patients' benefits and that they won't get a lucky dip experience day to day based on how many of god knows which base nutrients they might have consumed or not. How long does it actually last?"
"TWELVE TO FOURTEEN HOURS!"
"in adults"
"Adults don't get ADHD!"
"Pubic hair does not alter the function of defective synapses. Cut the crap. How long does it actually last in adults?"
"Er, maybe eight hours?"
"..."
"Six"
"Thank you. And is it actually sustained release or do you just have to wait an hour for it to fucking do anything because of the reason?"
"Why are you asking us, a defenceless pharmaceutical company, these accurate and probing but very hurtful questions?"
(Truth in advertising, I love Elvanse but I wish they'd stop lying about how long it lasts and stop pretending adults are fine on the same dose as an eight year old)
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Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Sarah Brown • • •FWIW, I'm pretty sure Elvanse's duration is dose-dependent. My last uptitration step was mostly to make sure that my evenings would be reliably covered when I take it in the morning.
AFAIU, its pharmacokinetic curve has three main components: the cleavage of the lysine dimesylate, which probably typically takes just one to two hours; the exponential decay curve of renal clearance after the amphetamine has become free in blood and gotten stocked up by the synapses, and some sort of effectiveness threshold. The exponential decay curve interacts with the effectiveness threshold in ways that are non-linear and can be non-intuitive to one who hasn't dabbled in calculus. But both components vary between people.
Sarah Brown
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • •@Riley S. Faelan My experiences:
30mg - started working in the first hour. Abruptly and violently ended 6 hours after that.
50mg - started working in the first hour. Abruptly and violently ended 7 1/2 hours after that.
70mg, which I've been taking for 14 months now - starts working in the first hour. Peaks about 3 hours in, sometimes with the propensity to make me just want to stare at the wall because it's very interesting and brain go quiet, for a bit, sometimes does fuck all. Ends moderately abruptly 7-8 hours after I take it.
At which point I take 10mg dexamphetamine sulphate which works in about 90 seconds and lasts 3 - 3 1/2 hours.
At which point I take 10mg dexamphetamine sulphate which works in about 90 seconds and lasts 2-3 hours.
And then I stop, unless I need my emergency "It's a long fucking day and I have to keep going for a bit longer" dose of 10mg dexamphetamine sulphate which works in about 90 seconds and lasts about an hour.
Y
... Show more...@Riley S. Faelan My experiences:
30mg - started working in the first hour. Abruptly and violently ended 6 hours after that.
50mg - started working in the first hour. Abruptly and violently ended 7 1/2 hours after that.
70mg, which I've been taking for 14 months now - starts working in the first hour. Peaks about 3 hours in, sometimes with the propensity to make me just want to stare at the wall because it's very interesting and brain go quiet, for a bit, sometimes does fuck all. Ends moderately abruptly 7-8 hours after I take it.
At which point I take 10mg dexamphetamine sulphate which works in about 90 seconds and lasts 3 - 3 1/2 hours.
At which point I take 10mg dexamphetamine sulphate which works in about 90 seconds and lasts 2-3 hours.
And then I stop, unless I need my emergency "It's a long fucking day and I have to keep going for a bit longer" dose of 10mg dexamphetamine sulphate which works in about 90 seconds and lasts about an hour.
You can see where this is going.
Honestly, I'd rather they cut the crap and just gave me 50mg dex a day to do with as I will but Oh No ThErE Is A dAnGeR oF DiVeRsIoN AnD HypErTeNsIoN.
(Bitch please. My BP off amphetamine is 130/90. On it it's 105/75)
Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Sarah Brown • • •This kind of sounds like your metabolism causes rapid swings, and the effectiveness threshold might be on the low side. Do you happen to know if taking, say, 30mg in the morning and 30mg in the aftrnoon, before the first dose runs out, might produce a friendlier curve in you?
Blood pressure of ADHD people going down on amphetamine is pretty common, AFAIK. The NT explanation is, it's because treating the ADHD reduces stress, but I kind of suspect that, at least in some forms of ADHD, the "paradoxical" effect of stimulants is directly applicable, kind of similarly to how RightHormones often directly improve a trans person's brain functions and happiness.
Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • • •Sarah Brown likes this.
Sarah Brown
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • •@Riley S. Faelan Yeah. It's definitely not due to lower stress. I *HAVE* lower stress, but different stimulants affect me differently in terms of blood pressure.
Caffeine - mild effect on ADHD, blood pressure goes up.
Amphetamine - huge effect on ADHD, blood pressure goes "standing up is now FAFO"
Ephedrine - effect on ADHD comparable to caffeine. Blood pressure *craters*
That last one must utterly piss off anaesthetists.
I've tried splitting my Elvanse dose. It just weakens the first one and the second one does piss all. Elvanse 30 contains more dexamphetamine (eventually) than Amfexa 10 but the latter gives me 3 - 3 1/2 good hours and the former gives me 2 hours of "meh" (both after 70mg of Elvanse).
The whole "stimulants do the same in ADHD and non ADHD people once you account for the different baseline" thing is such obvious bullshit, brought to you by the same people responsible for such classics as "Only boys get this", "Only children get this", "This is never comorbid with autism", and, "emotional disregulation is not a symptom".
Sarah Brown
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • •@Riley S. Faelan Yeah, tell me about it. I've tried it and it made me long for the sweet sweet release of death.
Dex or GTFO