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Raspberry Pi 5 announced (now with a bunch of improvements, including PCIe 2.0 and support for connecting M.2 accessories including NVMe SSDs): raspberrypi.com/news/introduci…
in reply to Charlie Stross

This is proper light desktop level stuff. If/when an nvme pci adapter shows up you can probably use this as a general computer.
in reply to Janne Moren

@jannem This is "proper light desktop level stuff" *today*. When I was first getting into computing this would have been at least 250 times as powerful as the entire University of London Supercomputing Center (with its multiple mainframes and pair of Cray X-MP supercomputers).
in reply to Charlie Stross

Absolutely. My first computer (a Commodore VIC20) had a CPU less powerful than the embedded microcontroller in my current keyboard.

On the flip side, the past ~10 years has seen a major slowdown in development. This one is light desktop use today, and is likely still just as usable for that in 5-6 years.

The days of having to buy a new computer because the 2-3 year old one is too slow to run new programs is largely over.

in reply to Charlie Stross

right now I’m watching 4K video streaming off a Pi 4 with a USB3 SSD and it works fine. It’s simultaneously acting as a network router getting me past the captive portal on hotel wifi. Point is, it’s fast enough for most things, wish they’d spent the upgrade on a decent USB-C interface rather than a speed boost
in reply to Charlie Stross

ooooh, I know what I want for Christmas!

I mean, yes, I already have a small herd of Raspberry Pis scattered around, and don't *need* another, but...

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Charlie Stross
@mhd @Uilebheist Cheapest I NUC remember seeing was about $120-150? (Anyway, you need to price in a case and storage with the RPi5.)
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mhd
@Uilebheist I thought Intel discontinued NUCs, but before that, didn't they cost 10x as much as $80?
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NSKE
@Uilebheist you can get a prebuilt mini pc with an SSD & power supply & case with cooling for this price. But I guess having to fashion your own case out of plasticine or whatever means you're a real 'maker'.
in reply to NSKE

@nske @Uilebheist You're missing out on the SDIO port. But yes, the RPi is optimized for hobbyists/tinkers/learners, not productivity.
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@Sarah Brown @NSKE @Uilebheist 🏳️‍🌈 @Charlie Stross Yep, if you actually want a PC, buy a PC. The ease of connecting it to random shit is what makes the Pi special, and as a bonus you can use it for some of the things you might have used a PC for anyway.
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mhd
@Uilebheist Wow. Cheapest one I can get here in Germany seems to be $140, but without SSD and RAM.
in reply to mhd

@mhd @Uilebheist Have you looked on AliExpress? E-waste is *crazy* cheap if you drop-ship it direct from the factory gate in Shenzhen ...
in reply to Charlie Stross

Not really for branded stuff. I can get knock-off NUCs, but even those start at $180, and I can get them the same via Amazon (which, to be fair, is probably the same drop-ship outfit).

Of course, this assumes we're talking about desktop replacement, brand new. If refurbished and/or embedded comes into place, we're wide open. I mean, some of the uses I saw for RPi4's connected to some automation kit could've been done by a ESP32s.

in reply to Alexandra Lanes

@ajlanes @goatsarah @Uilebheist @nske but with a power draw significantly less that a refrigerator.
Mine keeps an American cell phone network out of my home.
PiHole has managed my entire network without any power cycles.
in reply to Charlie Stross

I would love to get one but I’m not sure the value is there for me. By the time I add a case and an SSD, I’m probably better off getting a tiny pc. We’ll see.
in reply to Charlie Stross

OK, one disappointment: The Arm silicon doesn't do full Arm V8.3, only V8.2. V8.3 adds pointer authentication codes, which is an amazingly effective extension which helps mitigate a lot of memory attacks. It really ups the difficulty in exploiting things when present.

But I'm being picky here, really...

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YurkshireLad
@goatsarah probably mostly to run as a small server, not sure exactly what yet.
in reply to Charlie Stross

The thing that caught my eye was that "2 cameras and a gpu" should enable high frame rate depth imaging in software, which is fun for robotics...
in reply to Charlie Stross

Optimized for cops too apparently.

petapixel.com/2022/12/09/raspb…

in reply to mathew

@mathew @nske @Uilebheist That article is nearly a year old.

(Yes, they handled the spy cop mess abysmally. But if I boycotted every company that employed an ex-cop or someone equally dubious I'd never be able to buy *anything* because that's how our world is structured these days.)

in reply to Charlie Stross

It’s not so much that they employed him, it’s that they were proud of it, went after their own customers when called out, and remain unapologetic.

Sure, you can’t boycott everybody, but in cases there are less offensive alternatives — and in this case there seem to be plenty — I still think boycotts are plausible and effective.

I mean, your argument is the one a lot of people will use to stay on Xitter.

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mathew

@goatsarah @Uilebheist @nske Right, they’re all made in China, so that’s not a plausible decision criterion. But you can include other ethical concerns in your decision.

The argument that if you can’t be morally perfect you might as well not try at all, well, I see that as morally bankrupt.

in reply to mathew

@goatsarah @Uilebheist @nske For instance, chocolate has environmental concerns, and I don’t *have* to eat any. But even though I’m not morally perfect and I do eat chocolate, I’m still going to try to avoid buying it from companies that knowingly have trafficked children in their supply chains. I visit a different store occasionally and stock up on a brand that specifically avoids child slave labor. Not a big sacrifice.