My father is narcissistic, but that's my take on him. He does not listen. There's no point talking to him.
This is always true, but especially if I tried to talk to him about the abuse he has heaped on my brother and me. He flat out deny it, and declare that he fulfilled his role when he put a roof over our heads and fed us.
Such people continually rewrite their own biopic as they live it, and can never be wrong.
If this is a counseling session & I had already disengaged from this person, I would tell the therapist that I'm simply going to agree with everything he says. There'll be smiles all around. He'll leave happy. And maybe the therapist will get a sense of the depth of the problem.
I say this because NPD patients are notoriously poor at discovering there's anything wrong with them, or they deny it.
They find therapy grueling and unnecessary so they won't stay in it. And it is such a fundamental flaw, in serious cases, that there really isn't anything that can be done.
@sal @yourautisticlife @goatsarah hi, i'm officially f84.5 and officially having an empathy of a wall brick. so i could say i feel sorry for people with narcissistic disorder i met, i just don't. i don't really care. i like mushrooms, horror movies and mechanisms.
@goatsarah @ajlanes @yourautisticlife @lexx3000 I have said it before, but your MIL always reminds me of several of the ghost characters in C S Lewis's The Great Divorce
indeed, narcisists are persons but if you're not a person / professional trained to deal with them to help, the best remains to run away from these persons for your own safety. The fact that narcisists are at first victims of abuse or other threats doesn't justify to put yourself in danger trying to help them. That's precisely the aim of NPD: become unreachable.
And in general, being a victim yourself doesn't justify to victimize others, indeed.
@sal @axnxcamr @ajlanes @goatsarah thanks for this professoral lesson I didn't asked for 😀 Yes, I know the difference between the commonly accepted meaning of a word and its medical meaning, the confusion it can generate and the necessity to clarify what are we talking about. That's precisely why I won't change a word in my previous toot. Have a nice day !
@sal @ajlanes @goatsarah I can very much sympathize with your response. It is unsettling to imagine what it must be like to live with this diagnosis in our global healthcare climate.
Sadly, I can’t say if the person had been abusive at that point. I was trying my best to not judge and just listen. But my gut was acting up and it might just be some reaction due to past trauma.
@sal @axnxcamr @ajlanes @goatsarah yes I think people of this group faced psychiatry and all that come around with, and don't need lessons about that. We are in the same boat in a storm. The best we can do is sharing experiences and help, but that doesn't mean we need any self-proclaimed (or not) captain to know where to go and how to proceed. So thanks for your experience sharing but I didn't ask neither need for your guidance advice.
@VoxofGod @Susan60 @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes go easy on us percussionists... we are dancing... to the beat of our drums 🤣💖 And yeah... piano is actually percussion & no one ever said Phil Collins wasn't musically inclined...
@VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes I played recorder when I was 9… but also sang alto in a large choir with a very talented director. I love all sorts of music, (well,most) but don’t claim to be very musical. One of my sweetest travel memories is of walking through a large square in Catania, Sicily, & hearing a man playing violin on his balcony.
We watched a doco about drummers recently. Was quite fascinating, including the things they had to say about drum machines. Fun toys & very useful for people like the Eurhythmics, but not a substitute for a talented drummer.
@Susan60 @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes yeah... I have an electronic drum kit & a drum machine I shoe horn into my full acoustic kit as... I basically ran out of arm reach & like to play quite a few different styles of music... so... the drum machine is actually a very useful piece of kit. I get bored holding the "rhythm" & love syncopation so it frees me up to have some fun 🤷♀️
Plus, I actually drill to electronic/ techno / trance if I want a really thorough work it or to really build my core... if I'm gearing up for an endu
... show more
@Susan60 @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes yeah... I have an electronic drum kit & a drum machine I shoe horn into my full acoustic kit as... I basically ran out of arm reach & like to play quite a few different styles of music... so... the drum machine is actually a very useful piece of kit. I get bored holding the "rhythm" & love syncopation so it frees me up to have some fun 🤷♀️
Plus, I actually drill to electronic/ techno / trance if I want a really thorough work it or to really build my core... if I'm gearing up for an endurance "performance" where there aren't long breaks between sets or it's an open ended jam... like sometimes I have to wear myself out a bit to settle down, look blank & metronome for people 🤣🤦♀️🙄
Pandemic wise & vulnerability too I haven't actually played with other musicians since probably 2020~2021 I've lost track... seems like yesterday, a century ago... 💖
That last bit must be a bore. The doco I watched showed a workshop of some top drummers jamming with some up & coming. Quite a few women featured.
I imagine drumming must be very therapeutic, especially when you’re not having to hold a beat & can let loose. The director of one choir I was in used to get us to do sound baths”, where we would sing all sorts of notes, harmonising with each other. Pretty cool.
I keep thinking of joining another choir since moving closer to the city, but a particular guy I know is in most of them & I find him intensely irritating. ☹️
@Susan60 @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes yeah... an annoying person really ruins it... plus the pandemic is still spreading & mutating so... being in a room full of other people's exhalations <<< nope, no way... NOPE 💝 You are very important & singing is very joyful... but singing in a room full of people right now is a very bad for >>you<< option... there's actually on line stuff.
Like I get sent stuff to add my bits too... I have ProTools on my Mac plus an Axiom & all the other bits & pieces... it took a bit to get used to... but... it's actually a lot of fun 🙂
For me, what I sing - what I feel the urge to sing - can be an insight into what I'm feeling. Same with playing music. It can't be just whatever music, it has to be this particular artist / album / song. In my car is a thumb drive with the top 100 songs for every year, 1946 to about 2010, plus a bunch more albums from various artists. Everything from classical symphony to bubble-gum pop.
Yet Miss Sassy, Sarah Vaughn, manages it in a different way.
Which is why I always say a favorite, not the favorite, because ranking stops being useful when people are good at something. Now we are in the nuance realm.
Your Autistic Life
in reply to Brain Pilgrim • • •We have a winner.
My father is narcissistic, but that's my take on him. He does not listen. There's no point talking to him.
This is always true, but especially if I tried to talk to him about the abuse he has heaped on my brother and me. He flat out deny it, and declare that he fulfilled his role when he put a roof over our heads and fed us.
😩
@haui @actuallyautistic @pathfinder
Brain Pilgrim
in reply to Your Autistic Life • • •Such people continually rewrite their own biopic as they live it, and can never be wrong.
If this is a counseling session & I had already disengaged from this person, I would tell the therapist that I'm simply going to agree with everything he says. There'll be smiles all around. He'll leave happy. And maybe the therapist will get a sense of the depth of the problem.
Brain Pilgrim
in reply to Brain Pilgrim • • •I say this because NPD patients are notoriously poor at discovering there's anything wrong with them, or they deny it.
They find therapy grueling and unnecessary so they won't stay in it. And it is such a fundamental flaw, in serious cases, that there really isn't anything that can be done.
Alexandra Lanes
Unknown parent • •ActuallyAutistic group reshared this.
:chaos: 037 which is unimaginable :wormverified:
Unknown parent • • •Alexandra Lanes
in reply to :chaos: 037 which is unimaginable :wormverified: • •ActuallyAutistic group reshared this.
lexx3000
Unknown parent • • •Brain Pilgrim
Unknown parent • • •@goatsarah @sal@brain.worm.pink @yourautisticlife @haui @lexx3000
Such parental challenges are a recipe for developing sensitive antennae and pervasive anxiety.
🎪
MooMoo the Cat
Unknown parent • • •@goatsarah @yourautisticlife @lexx3000 "The best thing to do with narcissists is to be boring, uninteresting, and run the hell away."
Can confirm. This works.
Brain Pilgrim
in reply to MooMoo the Cat • • •@flowerpot @goatsarah @yourautisticlife @lexx3000
Also the psychopath-handling technique known as Gray Rock.
Alexandra Lanes likes this.
Brain Pilgrim
Unknown parent • • •@goatsarah @sal@brain.worm.pink @yourautisticlife @haui @lexx3000
Down the Rabbit Hole
The world of estranged parents' forums
issendai.com/psychology/estran…
Brain Pilgrim
Unknown parent • • •Alexandra Lanes
Unknown parent • •ActuallyAutistic group reshared this.
marnanel
Unknown parent • • •marnanel
Unknown parent • • •Brain Pilgrim
in reply to marnanel • • •@marnanel @sal@brain.worm.pink @actuallyautistic @pathfinder @haui @yourautisticlife @goatsarah
The narcissist sits in an empty movie theater. The rest of us are the movie they are directing up on the screen.
They are the only person in the world, miserable and frightened, but they have their movie.
That's how I see them, and that's how I summon pity for them. So I stay civilized, even professional.
Just, not necessarily, polite.
Sylvain
Unknown parent • • •@sal
Is there a reason you feel it's appropriate to condescend the shit out of people in the @actuallyautistic group?
@ajlanes @goatsarah
Dremmwel ar Vran Ruz
in reply to Sylvain • • •indeed, narcisists are persons but if you're not a person / professional trained to deal with them to help, the best remains to run away from these persons for your own safety.
The fact that narcisists are at first victims of abuse or other threats doesn't justify to put yourself in danger trying to help them. That's precisely the aim of NPD: become unreachable.
And in general, being a victim yourself doesn't justify to victimize others, indeed.
Dremmwel ar Vran Ruz
Unknown parent • • •Yes, I know the difference between the commonly accepted meaning of a word and its medical meaning, the confusion it can generate and the necessity to clarify what are we talking about. That's precisely why I won't change a word in my previous toot.
Have a nice day !
haui
Unknown parent • • •@sal @Dremmwel @axnxcamr @ajlanes @goatsarah now THAT escalated quickly!? I feel like I‘ve asked a question that caused a landslide.
I was talking about the actual psych diagnosis, not the derogatory term.
And the reason I asked is that I didn’t want to hurt or devalue the person but felt overwhelmed since I‘ve been severely abused myself in the past.
Thanks for answering though. 😀
haui
Unknown parent • • •@sal @ajlanes @goatsarah I can very much sympathize with your response. It is unsettling to imagine what it must be like to live with this diagnosis in our global healthcare climate.
Sadly, I can’t say if the person had been abusive at that point. I was trying my best to not judge and just listen. But my gut was acting up and it might just be some reaction due to past trauma.
Zumbador
in reply to haui • • •@sal@brain.worm.pink @actuallyautistic @brainpilgrim @ajlanes @goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org
Butting into this conversation to highlight the following:
Please be careful when assuming an autistic person's tone.
Telling an autistic person that they're patronising is often (not always!) inaccurate and unfair.
The way we communicated often comes across as lecturing or patronising even when we're not.
Disagree with the points a person is making, that's totally fair.
No need to tone police.
Dremmwel ar Vran Ruz
Unknown parent • • •Brain Pilgrim
in reply to Zumbador • • •@Zumbador @ajlanes
Agreeing because I can manage the tone in my voice as needed. Huge influence on every being around me, from dogs and cats to the people I work with.
And I constantly restrain myself from pointing out the screaming obvious, because that's one of those things people hate you doing.
When they are choosing to not live in reality. For you. In that moment.
haui
in reply to Brain Pilgrim • • •Susan60
Unknown parent • • •Elisabeth M
in reply to Susan60 • • •I get it wong all the time
@VoxofGod @haui @brainpilgrim @Zumbador @actuallyautistic @ajlanes
Susan60
in reply to Elisabeth M • • •Susan60
Unknown parent • • •Julie Smith
Unknown parent • • •@VoxofGod @Susan60 @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes go easy on us percussionists... we are dancing... to the beat of our drums 🤣💖 And yeah... piano is actually percussion & no one ever said Phil Collins wasn't musically inclined...
I can feel it... in the air tonight...
& also in my bones!
Susan60
Unknown parent • • •I played recorder when I was 9… but also sang alto in a large choir with a very talented director. I love all sorts of music, (well,most) but don’t claim to be very musical. One of my sweetest travel memories is of walking through a large square in Catania, Sicily, & hearing a man playing violin on his balcony.
Susan60
Unknown parent • • •Susan60
Unknown parent • • •@VoxofGod @juliasnz @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes
We watched a doco about drummers recently. Was quite fascinating, including the things they had to say about drum machines. Fun toys & very useful for people like the Eurhythmics, but not a substitute for a talented drummer.
Susan60
in reply to Susan60 • • •Julie Smith
in reply to Susan60 • • •@Susan60 @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes yeah... I have an electronic drum kit & a drum machine I shoe horn into my full acoustic kit as... I basically ran out of arm reach & like to play quite a few different styles of music... so... the drum machine is actually a very useful piece of kit. I get bored holding the "rhythm" & love syncopation so it frees me up to have some fun 🤷♀️
Plus, I actually drill to electronic/ techno / trance if I want a really thorough work it or to really build my core... if I'm gearing up for an endu
... show more@Susan60 @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes yeah... I have an electronic drum kit & a drum machine I shoe horn into my full acoustic kit as... I basically ran out of arm reach & like to play quite a few different styles of music... so... the drum machine is actually a very useful piece of kit. I get bored holding the "rhythm" & love syncopation so it frees me up to have some fun 🤷♀️
Plus, I actually drill to electronic/ techno / trance if I want a really thorough work it or to really build my core... if I'm gearing up for an endurance "performance" where there aren't long breaks between sets or it's an open ended jam... like sometimes I have to wear myself out a bit to settle down, look blank & metronome for people 🤣🤦♀️🙄
Pandemic wise & vulnerability too I haven't actually played with other musicians since probably 2020~2021 I've lost track... seems like yesterday, a century ago... 💖
Susan60
in reply to Julie Smith • • •@juliasnz @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes
That last bit must be a bore. The doco I watched showed a workshop of some top drummers jamming with some up & coming. Quite a few women featured.
I imagine drumming must be very therapeutic, especially when you’re not having to hold a beat & can let loose. The director of one choir I was in used to get us to do sound baths”, where we would sing all sorts of notes, harmonising with each other. Pretty cool.
I keep thinking of joining another choir since moving closer to the city, but a particular guy I know is in most of them & I find him intensely irritating. ☹️
Julie Smith
in reply to Susan60 • • •@Susan60 @VoxofGod @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes yeah... an annoying person really ruins it... plus the pandemic is still spreading & mutating so... being in a room full of other people's exhalations <<< nope, no way... NOPE 💝 You are very important & singing is very joyful... but singing in a room full of people right now is a very bad for >>you<< option... there's actually on line stuff.
Like I get sent stuff to add my bits too... I have ProTools on my Mac plus an Axiom & all the other bits & pieces... it took a bit to get used to... but... it's actually a lot of fun 🙂
Susan60
in reply to Julie Smith • • •Brain Pilgrim
Unknown parent • • •ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈
Unknown parent • • •@VoxofGod
For me, what I sing - what I feel the urge to sing - can be an insight into what I'm feeling. Same with playing music. It can't be just whatever music, it has to be this particular artist / album / song.
In my car is a thumb drive with the top 100 songs for every year, 1946 to about 2010, plus a bunch more albums from various artists. Everything from classical symphony to bubble-gum pop.
@Susan60 @juliasnz @independentpen @haui @brainpilgrim @Zumbador @actuallyautistic @ajlanes
Susan60
in reply to ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈 • • •@ScottSoCal @VoxofGod @juliasnz @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes
My mum used to sing hits from musicals of the 50s when we were in the car. Great songs.
ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈
in reply to Susan60 • • •@Susan60
Torch songs from the 1920s and 1930s are for when I'm stressed and want to relax.
@VoxofGod @juliasnz @independentpen @haui @brainpilgrim @Zumbador @actuallyautistic @ajlanes
Brain Pilgrim
in reply to ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈 • • •Susan60
in reply to ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈 • • •ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈
in reply to Susan60 • • •@Susan60
I usually pop on Ella Fitzgeral or Etta James and sing along. I'm sure you've heard the Etta James version of "At Last".
youtube.com/watch?v=S-cbOl96RF…
@VoxofGod @juliasnz @independentpen @haui @brainpilgrim @Zumbador @actuallyautistic @ajlanes
Etta James - At Last - Lyrics
YouTubeSusan60
in reply to ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈 • • •@ScottSoCal @VoxofGod @juliasnz @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes
Ooh yeah.
Susan60
in reply to Susan60 • • •Brain Pilgrim
in reply to ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳🌈 • • •@ScottSoCal @Susan60 @VoxofGod @juliasnz @independentpen @Zumbador @ajlanes
Oh yeah. She torches like no other.
Yet Miss Sassy, Sarah Vaughn, manages it in a different way.
Which is why I always say a favorite, not the favorite, because ranking stops being useful when people are good at something. Now we are in the nuance realm.