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So, out of interest (I drive a Nissan Leaf, which is in many ways my ideal car, but they’re EOL), what car is available today that satisfies the following:

Battery EV

Not an iPad/SUV crossover

Hatchback with decent boot space (previous comment about not an SUV still applies)

Intelligent cruise control with lane following

If Nissan updated the Leaf to have CCS2 and an actively cooled battery, it would be just perfect IMO, but instead they scrapped it and replaced it with the Ariya, which is an SUV/iPad crossover and they broke one of the Leaf’s best features (e-pedal) in the process too.

in reply to Sarah Brown

Sion [main]
Sion [main]
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I'm really wary about lane following after a courtesy car with it tried to throw itself (with me in it) off the motorway because it didn't understand contraflow.

Other than that, I'd like to know the same thing too. Also must have at least 150 mile range (preferably 200) -- there's sod all charging infrastructure around here. Everything I see reviews for and think, "That looks sensible" turns out to be intended as a city car with a 70 mile range.

in reply to Sion [main]

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Sion [main] It’s tried to kill me on several occasions. It doesn’t turn the wheel with enough force to override my own steering inputs though, so I still regard it as a useful driving aid because it lowers my cognitive workload.
in reply to Sarah Brown

Sion [main]
Sion [main]
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I think I'd have to train out my instinct to steer against feeling the car moving in a way I wasn't inputting.
in reply to Sion [main]

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Sion [main] Driven tens of thousands of km with ProPilot turned on now and would not buy a car without it.
in reply to Sion [main]

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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@sparrowsion I'm in favour of lane following so long as it is easy to turn off - because, as you say, there are some roads where it does more harm than good.

My current Toyota: Button on the steering wheel. Easy. MG4: deep in a menu, and turns itself back on every time you start the car. Apparently the latter is required to get the max NCAP rating nowadays 😠

@Sion [main]
in reply to Simon Waldman

Alan Braggins
Alan Braggins
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my Mii it's a button on the dash, turns itself off on unclear roads, and is weak enough to ignore.
But it's discontinued (like the Citigo and e-Up), and limited range, and dumb cruise control. OK for us as a second car.
My opinion of the Cupra Born was that it was nicer than the MG4, but not sufficiently so to justify the price difference. That was only based on short test drives though.
Main car we do want an SUV type (replacement for X-Trail T31).
This entry was edited (10 months ago)
in reply to Sarah Brown

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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Seriously? They've stopped the Leaf? That's v sad.

OTTOMH: ID3 / Born, MG4, probably Ionic 5 if not too big, possibly the new Peugeot e-308 (or the e-208 if it's big enough for you). BYD Dolphin. Ora Funky Cat if you don't hate the looks.

*Possibly* the Smart #1, but I'm not sure how much it reads as an SUV.

in reply to Simon Waldman

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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(I've assumed they all fit the cruise control requirements, haven't checked. The MG4 gets criticised for overly-strong lane following, which tries to hurl you into oncoming traffic on narrow country roads.)
in reply to Simon Waldman

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Simon Waldman basically I want ProPilot. Just looked, for example, at the peugeot and it doesn’t seem to even offer adaptive cruise control if you don’t get the petrol version.

My requirements are “don’t run into the car in front and follow the lane on the motorway”.

@Simon Waldman
in reply to Simon Waldman

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Simon Waldman

Thanks. That’s very helpful. FAO @Zoë O'Connell

Relevant to our interests.

@Simon Waldman @Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Sarah Brown

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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@zoe Glad. It's almost certainly not exhaustive! And given subsequent conversation, a few of them might be too much in the "ipad with wheels" category...
@Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Simon Waldman

Zoë O'Connell
Zoë O'Connell
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@swaldman I think every single one of those lacks physical climate controls - suggesting they've falled into the trap of normal driving operations requiring unsafe interaction with a touch screen. And potentially significant interaction if you need to switch away from and then back to CarPlay/Android Auto being used for navigation.
@Simon Waldman
in reply to Zoë O'Connell

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Zoë O'Connell @Simon Waldman Yeah. It's like they got the people in who vomited up (I refuse to use the word "designed" here) electric oven and hob controls.
@Simon Waldman @Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Sarah Brown

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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@zoe
Yes!! I have a touch-button hob for the first time in my current place and I am screaming "why? Turning knobs was perfectly good, and you made it worse!". Though it is easier to clean.
@Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Sarah Brown

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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@zoe Also, "You put something down on this cold and not-in-use cooking surface? I will BLEEP AT YOU INCESSANTLY until you move it or turn the power off".
@Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Simon Waldman

Zoë O'Connell
Zoë O'Connell
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@swaldman I’m always drawn to aviation as a good example of UI design as errors can have major consequences.

Even the shiny glass cockpit on an Airbus uses ACTUAL KNOBS AND BUTTONS. Even if the button is context-sensitive, there’s something to jab at.

I get the ease of cleaning for a hob but there are better ways of doing it.

@Simon Waldman
in reply to Zoë O'Connell

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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@zoe also, in modern planes, a lot of serious experimental science has gone into UI design (because of its importance, as you note). Although what is best for pilots who train on that specific aircraft type may not be what is best for car drivers, I guess.
@goatsarah
@Sarah Brown @Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Zoë O'Connell

Simon Waldman
Simon Waldman
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@zoe they all have big touchscreens, but I don't think any / many of them are free of buttons in a Tesla way. I think most of the things that would usually be on the wheel or stalks are still on the wheel or stalks. (though the ID3 and Born have been criticised for making the steering wheel buttons capacitive...)
@goatsarah
@Sarah Brown @Zoë O'Connell
in reply to Sarah Brown

TheClothesHaveNoEmperor
TheClothesHaveNoEmperor
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I am very happy with my Chevrolet Bolt (2019), which I believe checks off all of your items (except lane following), but unfortunately appears to be shifting this year from subcompact hatchback to crossover SUV. And there have been two recalls for battery hazards, so there's that.
in reply to Sarah Brown

Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈
Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈
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The VW ID3 is pretty nice, there's the Ora Cat, and the new 500E - although those latter two aren't so hot on the boot space thing. Depends on what you consider enough boot space.

The Kia Niro EV / Soul EV are both "crossovers" but not really apart from the kinda high bonnet line, same with the MG ZS, which was a pretty solid choice last time I drove it. IMHO with these "crossover"s more a branding thing. Not sure whether the "Not an iPad/SUV Crossover" is a I want something that's neither, or I want something that isn't a giant tablet glued to the center console in a stupid crossover format.

Upcoming this year (breaking the available now rule) are the ID2 when it comes out if you want something smaller and the new Mini E (definitely breaking the boot space)

Those are my first thoughts.

I despise crossovers in so many ways, but a lot of them more seem marketing along with a pedestrian-obnoxious bonnet line, rather than actual anything practicality related.

in reply to Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈

Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈
Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈
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Most everything has LFA, although the quality varies wildly. If you really want *excellent* LFA and don't mind aftermarket, I have had really, really, really good results with Comma.ai
in reply to Sarah Brown

Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈
Vaguely here 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈
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oh ,also, if it's just that you want CCS, there are projects to give the leaf CCS, and also adapters coming for CCD to CHAdeMO.
in reply to Sarah Brown

mobbsy
mobbsy
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The new Renault Megane EV seems to be the closest to "Leaf, but newer". It has real buttons.

Upgraded from a 2016 Mk1 Leaf (after doing 70k miles in that) to a 2020 Mk2 Leaf about 2 weeks ago, test drove the Megane and might well have gone for it, but needed something without a trashed battery ASAP so went 2nd hand.

Already had a chance to regret the lack of both CCS and 22kW A/C charging...

in reply to Sarah Brown

mobbsy
mobbsy
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e-Pedal - not really. It's got strong regen braking but not full single-pedal driving. When I test drove it, I hadn't used e-Pedal, but after a couple of weeks of use I can see why it'd be something that you'd really miss.

ProPilot - it has adaptive cruise control, lane keeping and blind spot warning. I think that covers the functionality I know of. Anything else?

in reply to mobbsy

mobbsy
mobbsy
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Oh, it has a "autohold", which does replicate one bit of e-Pedal, in keeping the car held still on a slope when stopped. But you still need to use a brake pedal to get there.
in reply to mobbsy

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@mobbsy that’s pretty much what I need for ProPilot, yeah.

Nissan broke e-pedal on the Aryia. The car creeps with no feet on the pedals 😞

@mobbsy
in reply to Sarah Brown

mobbsy
mobbsy
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Looks from nissan.co.uk/owners/nissan-own… like the Aryia should have an autohold function. I did test drive an Aryia too, but a while ago and don't remember finding that function.
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