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This is very cool!

London using eBus pantograph charging to spark a green future (ChargingInfrastructure) - London Reconnections

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Long Branch Mike (London Reconnections)
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Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Steve Lord Who wouldn’t? These are probably quicker and cheaper to roll out tho.
@Steve Lord
in reply to Sarah Brown

FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
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@stevelord

Yeah, trams or trolley buses would be ideal so that they're not having to put energy into carrying batteries around.

But this is definitely next best thing though! 👍

@Steve Lord
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

AndyDearden
AndyDearden
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@FediThing @stevelord there is a strategy with pantograph wires on the inside lane of all motorways so that freight trucks only need battery capacity for the last 20 miles or so.
@Steve Lord @FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

Kincaid
Kincaid
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@FediThing @stevelord hmm. A trolleybus would these days likely still have batteries for regen braking porpoises and smoothing the powercurves.

This seems best of all worlds - electric, go anywhere, but with smaller battery than charging-in-depot-overnight would require

@Steve Lord @FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
in reply to Kincaid

FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
• •
Presumably trolleybus still has much smaller batteries though than a bus that runs entirely on batteries? Otherwise what would the electricity wires be doing?
This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

Kincaid
Kincaid
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@FediThing @stevelord well yes, the bus that charges at each stop will have a bigger battery than a trolley bus but much smaller than a non-cantilever type. And doesn't require *very* expensive line work, and can go anywhere ( in Notts at least it wasn't the car that killed the tram/trolley, it was the diesel motorbus that was far more convenient than fixed route trolleys)
@Steve Lord @FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
in reply to Sarah Brown

Alexandra Lanes
Alexandra Lanes
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@Sarah Brown I like it, although I wonder how much dwell time it needs at each end to keep topped up enough. Maybe “less than it would if you were pratting about with wires” is good enough?
@Sarah Brown
in reply to Alexandra Lanes

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@Alexandra Lanes Commercial fast chargers are well above 100kw these days. You can get significant amounts of charge very quickly.
@Alexandra Lanes
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
• •

I can't find it now, but there was a relatively recent video about trolley buses which ran along overhead lines when possible but had enough battery to skip between them if there was a diversion. That apparently made the installation/convenience costs lower as it didn't have to be 100% coverage.

Wonder if this system could become a stepping stone to something like that? Maybe have charging lines running along the most popular streets that have lots of buses, to reduce the minimum battery size required for the average journey?

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@FediThing @Kincaid @Steve Lord Can’t see the quest to save weight at the expense of installing large scale physical infra structure and limiting routes to be that worth it, TBH.

Battery tech is improving all the time, and if your concern is about lithium availability, sodium ion batteries may be the future.

Betting against cheap plentiful EV storage batteries coming along soon seems like a bad bet, to me. There is so much money being thrown at it, and given the amount of “EV bad” FUD that’s currently doing the rounds, I suspect the oil companies are frightened as hell.

@Kincaid @Steve Lord @FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
in reply to Sarah Brown

FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
• •

"Battery tech is improving all the time, and if your concern is about lithium availability, sodium ion batteries may be the future."

Couldn't we just use trolley buses until that happens?

It might not happen at all, and if we're not so dependent on batteries it wouldn't matter.

Also, if we used more trolley buses, the trolley bus tech would improve too?

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

Kincaid
Kincaid
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@FediThing @stevelord the marginal cost between a trolley electric and pit-stop-charging bus battery will be negligable - electric double deck bus costs £450K, (diesel is £300K) says google, for reference. More google says £200 per kilowatt hour, big 300kwhr battery is £70K, so you'd save maybe 50K per bus

Overhead line gear is in the millions per km on a good day... and then you have to *still buy a bus*.

Or buy 4 or 5 go anywhere buses

Wires for trams great. Buses, nah

@Steve Lord @FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
in reply to FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

Sarah Brown
Sarah Brown
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@FediThing @Kincaid @Steve Lord As I said, were I investing in this, I would not bet against battery tech. That’s a sucker bet.

The problem with covering cities in metal string for trolley buses is not a technical one. We know how to do it. We’ve known how to do it for over a century. Technically it’s a solved problem.

The problem is social and logístical.

It’s entirely possible, of course, that trolley buses are the right horse to back, in the same way that it’s entirely possible that everyone in between me and the throne of England will die tomorrow and leave me to inherit it.

It’s not gonna happen through.

@Kincaid @Steve Lord @FediThing 🏳️‍🌈
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