Russia's security must be guaranteed by any Ukraine peace deal, Lavrov says
Summary
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov stated that Russia rejects a weak ceasefire in Ukraine, instead seeking a legally binding peace deal ensuring the security of Russia and its neighbors.
Lavrov accused the West of using truces to re-arm Ukraine and called for agreements preventing future violations.
President Putin expressed readiness for talks with Trump but ruled out territorial concessions or Ukraine’s NATO membership, a key Russian concern.
Ukraine remains committed to pursuing NATO membership despite Russia’s objections.
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Flying Squid
in reply to MicroWave • • •Your security was not an issue until you invaded Ukraine. You didn't want NATO on your border (even though it already was there in Kaliningrad)? Now you have it.
No one was talking about Finland joining NATO until you invaded Ukraine. Ukraine itself wasn't pursuing NATO membership until you invaded.
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snekerpimp
in reply to Flying Squid • • •like this
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Voroxpete
in reply to Flying Squid • • •Also Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Canada (if you don't count the Arctic).
The idea that Ukraine joining NATO made any kind of difference to Russia's security is absolutely ludicrous.
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Hubi
in reply to Voroxpete • • •like this
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Voroxpete
in reply to Hubi • • •Yeah, exactly.
It genuinely worries me that people struggle to see through bullshit this obvious.
socsa
in reply to Voroxpete • • •Voroxpete
in reply to socsa • • •socsa
in reply to Voroxpete • • •Voroxpete
in reply to socsa • • •IRL and online. It happens way too often.
A big part of it is that a lot of modern leftists were kind of forged in the post 9/11 culture and the reaction against Bush's forever wars, and they in turn inherited much of their political conscience from elder leftists who were forged in the Nixon years and the reaction against the Vietnam war.
So its become a kind of fait a complit on the left that being anti-war and anti American Imperialism is always good and necessary. And those are good positions to hold, but the problem is that people don't come to them through interrogative thought. They're just sort of handed to you as part of your welcome package. So when presented with a scenario where supporting the continuation of a military conflict - even when that support aligns you with the interests of US global influence - is actually a moral good, a lot of these people really struggle to break free of their own thought terminating cliches.
The Ukraine conflict simply does not fit into the same boxes that they're used to sorting ideas into, and because, by and large,
... show moreIRL and online. It happens way too often.
A big part of it is that a lot of modern leftists were kind of forged in the post 9/11 culture and the reaction against Bush's forever wars, and they in turn inherited much of their political conscience from elder leftists who were forged in the Nixon years and the reaction against the Vietnam war.
So its become a kind of fait a complit on the left that being anti-war and anti American Imperialism is always good and necessary. And those are good positions to hold, but the problem is that people don't come to them through interrogative thought. They're just sort of handed to you as part of your welcome package. So when presented with a scenario where supporting the continuation of a military conflict - even when that support aligns you with the interests of US global influence - is actually a moral good, a lot of these people really struggle to break free of their own thought terminating cliches.
The Ukraine conflict simply does not fit into the same boxes that they're used to sorting ideas into, and because, by and large, most leftists detest war on a purely moral level (understandable, no one should be overjoyed at the notion of vast destruction of human life, though a depressingly large number of people are) they simply haven't spent enough time interrogating these ideas to have built a framework to handle complex cases like this.
Russia very carefully frames their propaganda to exploit these moral conflicts. NATO is a military alliance, ergo "NATO bad". America is an imperialist power, ergo anything that serves American interests is bad. Military conflicts lead to unacceptable loss of life, ergo anything which prolongs a conflict is bad. These are easy answers to complicated problems, so people naturally latch onto them.
TimeSquirrel
in reply to Voroxpete • • •chonglibloodsport
in reply to Flying Squid • • •zurohki
in reply to MicroWave • • •Russia wants time to rearm, but doesn't want the people they're attacking doing the same thing.
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takeda
in reply to zurohki • • •What is Russia's plan for victory?
YouTubesexy_peach
in reply to zurohki • • •like this
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rayyy
in reply to sexy_peach • • •Hey, that's Republican territory.
reddwarf
in reply to rayyy • • •I do believe @sexy_peach was not stuttering or being confused
Sarah Brown
in reply to MicroWave • •@MicroWave Hey Russia, you could try not invading people if you’re worried about them fighting back?
Delusional nonsense from Moscow as usual.
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Quacksalber
in reply to MicroWave • • •HootinNHollerin
in reply to MicroWave • • •eran_morad
in reply to MicroWave • • •ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
in reply to MicroWave • • •like this
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vga
in reply to MicroWave • • •Ok, so a return to 1994 and the Budapest memorandum[0]. Sounds good to me!
Remember, Russia is the only offensive party in all of this.
[0] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest…
international treaty of Ukraine, the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom
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Optional
in reply to MicroWave • • •like this
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Rentlar
in reply to MicroWave • • •like this
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AshMan85
in reply to MicroWave • • •like this
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hddsx
in reply to MicroWave • • •andrew_bidlaw
in reply to hddsx • • •recreationalcatheter
in reply to MicroWave • • •socsa
in reply to MicroWave • • •like this
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Prior_Industry
in reply to MicroWave • • •DicJacobus
in reply to MicroWave • • •I've carefully considered Russia's concerns and security, and after 3 years I've ultimately decided that I don't give a fuck about Genocidal Fascist Warmonger's Fee-fees.
Ukraine's sovereingty doesn't end where Russian hurt feelings begin.
middlemanSI
in reply to DicJacobus • • •leftzero
in reply to middlemanSI • • •Aren't they kidnapping children for “reeducation” and whatnot..? I think that counts as genocide...
And even if they weren't (currently) doing it in Ukraine they've been doing it elsewhere, like in Chechnya...
And, well, genocides, pogroms, and whatnot have been a Russian tradition for a long time... Ukraine in particular still remembers Stalin's holodomor, and the deportation of the Crimean Tatars...
Hell, if there's such a thing as unintentional genocide or genocide by incompetence they've probably been doing it to themselves for centuries... “... and then things got worse” and all that...
werefreeatlast
in reply to MicroWave • • •I wonder what noises this asshole would make if a large pointy 2x4 traversed him in reverse from arse to piehole. Would it be similar to bear love making? I hope someone out there, who knows where a bear might be, could unite them to have a good listen.
Is that too much? 2X4 instead?
kreskin
in reply to MicroWave • • •Treczoks
in reply to MicroWave • • •