friendica (DFRN) - Link to source
Just seen the best bit of commentary on transmisogyny I’ve seen in ages: if you want to know how a man treats cis women in private, look at how he treats trans women in public.
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Jay

@JustinMac84 To be transphobic, one must lack the ability or willingness to extend empathy to those whose lives are unlike one’s own, and to treat them as full and complete human beings.

This failure is mirrored in misogyny, whether the person recognizes it as such or not. “Treating them right”, when you can’t understand how THEY wish to be treated, is merely “commit no obvious violence towards them”, but it is not “respect their personhood”.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Jay

@JustinMac84 Bigotry is based in a lack of empathy paired with a background hum of discrimination as the person moves through society, and part of that discrimination is a failure to recognize what IS discrimination. It rarely keeps to its own little box.

You are approaching this from an active and aware kind of hatred perspective - “has it in for” - which is not how many bigots act; they defend themselves as not -ist all the time.

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mastodon - Link to source

Tina🍉

@JustinMac84 Logically, let’s point out that since trans women are women, trans misogyny is necessarily a subtype of *general misogyny* the same way a square is a subtype of rectangle. Secondly, the mistreatment of both groups (cis and trans women) stem from the same underlying beliefs: bioessentialism, femininity as inferior, etc. and holding these beliefs always lead to the similar patterns of thoughts and behaviors.
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mastodon - Link to source

Tina🍉

@JustinMac84 also some cis women look trans and some trans woman look cis. If such a cis-woman-respecting transmisogyst were to exist how would he even know for sure who to respect and who to abuse? And isn’t it inherently misogynistic to condition your respect for a woman based on some assessment of her appearance?
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glitchsoc - Link to source

kæt

@JustinMac84 Okay, I'll bite. I've no idea if this is a good-faith argument or someone who's bored and looking for a laugh, so I'm not going to reply to responses.

People's attitudes to homosexuality, to transness, and to women are closely tied. They're not the same thing, but they feed off each other. For example, there's an inter-relatedness in the fear of being seen as effeminate, between fear of gay men and a perceived "ickiness" of women. Cis-men are also under intense pressure to conform to gender norms, and over time that often develops into an aversion towards being "mistaken" for a woman. Strict cis-heterosexuality is potentially unstablised by any threat to the membrane between "wanting to have" and "wanting to be". Someone who likes airline pilots and maybe wants to be an airline pilot (or once did or doesn't, or maybe marry one, or hang out with them) can do so quite easily in a fluid way, and this fluidity has to be policed in cis-heterosexuality when it comes to sexuality. ...

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in reply to kæt

glitchsoc - Link to source

kæt

@JustinMac84 ... The way a trans-man treats "otherness" in respect to this whole cluster of aversions correlates how they treat otherness in other circumstances in this bundle. Trans-people at present can be attacked under the cover of "concern" which doesn't look overtly misogynistic, society is (infuriatingly) making this a "free hit" in this game under cover of concern and is powered by the uncanny feeling that comes from a threat to the deep sense of the inherent naturalness and defaultness of not being "other" in any of these categories. Which carries across to other categories in the cluster.

If someone feels a deep need to police bathrooms for genitalia, that likely carries over to policing jobs for genitalia too, or strength, coming from the same deep tangle. It's all the same gig.

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Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Link to source

kæt

@JustinMac84 No, I'm reading your replies. But I'm not going to reply substantively, as these debates are tedious to me, as they are old and unoriginal. If I had a Patreon you could pay to continue if you are motivated to do so, but I don't and I have to make a dairylea toasted sandwich and go see the ducks on the reservoir.
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mastodon - Link to source

Tina🍉

@JustinMac84 a misogynist is someone who mistreats some or all women on the basis of their gender identity. That is not a “generalization” that is simply the definition of the word. A generalization would be correlating misogyny with a random unrelated trait like eye color or astrological sign.
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mastodon - Link to source

Tina🍉

@JustinMac84 i think bioessentialism is the core presupposition of both transphobia and misogyny. I think that if a man holds these essentialist views, he will hold them across the board for trans and cis people but keep them better hidden when applying them to cis women since we hold relatively more political power in society compared to trans women.
@Justin Macleod
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mastodon - Link to source

Tina🍉

@JustinMac84 yes it is a fact. In order to believe men are inherently superior to women (misogyny), you must first believe that there is some fixed essence of femaleness that is fundamentally important to who one is as a person. And if this essence is fixed, then trans people aren’t valid (transphobia). That is the link and you still haven’t been able to disentangle that link.
@Justin Macleod
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Tina🍉

@JustinMac84 yes terfs are always misogynistic because they attack trans women and reduce cis women to reproductive functions. I said misogyny and transphobia have a root cause in common. Not that they are exactly the same. Batting southpaw is not the same thing as using left handed scissors but the two behaviors are closely related due to sharing a common root cause.
@Justin Macleod
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